Born To Be Alive
Interview taken from "Sounds", August 27th 1983

A TIDAL WAVE of titters swept the country earlier this year when rumours began to circulate suggesting that Ian Gillan would soon be appearing behind the Black Sabbath mic-stand. And I doubt if I was the only person in Britain who dismissed those "ridiculous" rumours as "bullshit". "IAN GILLAN? Nah, not him. For a start he's got to stop singing for six months - and in any case, he wouldn't fit in. He don't sing about witches, devils an' all that - blimey, he don't even wear a cross!"

It did seem most unlikely and hard to envisage. Even when the liaison was officially announced, I found myself carefully studying the calendar to make sure it wasn't April 1.
Naturally, more rumours began to fly concerning the reasons why Gillan had decided to join (financial problems seemed to the most popular subject under discussion, although it was also suggested that Gillan had been stranded after the proposed Deep Purple reunion fell through unable to face starting up 'Gillan' again, and Sabbath was his only chance to get back into a working band). And, naturally slaggings from disgruntled members of his disbanded group surfaced here, there and everywhere. The chance for Mr Gillan himself to reply to those accusations and to openly discuss his new job seemed long overdue, so read on...
Sabbath are at Birmingham's NEC rehearsing on the newly designed stage set (I'd LOVE to tell you all about it, but I'm not going to! You'll have to wait 'til you see it for yourselves - bastard ain't I?). A photo session precedes any verbal, and it's only when I see the new line up for the first time that it actually registers with me.
Tony Iommi and Geezer Butler look magnificent in their familiar black leathers, while Ian Gillan, decked out in his usual casual attire ("I'll have to get a new denim jacket soon, y'know") grins constantly - probably feeling a little out of place in his jeans - while new(er) boy Bev Bevan from ELO conforms to the Sabbath tradition by appearing in a stylish leather suit. Smiles all round. Inside the NEC the jollity of another (more light-hearted) photo session (which incidentally ends with Gillan attacking himself with a birthday cake) clearly exhibits the new air of excitement and zest in the BS camp, and the awesome sight of that majestic new stage set lying dormant in the eerie darkness of the huge arena is enough to impress on me the fact that the new Sabbath is going to be no old fogey's picnic; rather a devastating paradise of might to blast pesky doubters into oblivion.
We shall see. But now for the chat, and when the hustling hordes of lensmen disappear, I ask Ian for the lowdown on his call up.

"There were some overtures made last year from their offices to mine", the excited warbler told me, "but at the time I wasn't considering anything other than what I was doing. Then I had this trouble with my voice which meant I had to take six months' rest without singing after the last Gillan tour. "The split was purely a medical thing. I've read a few things in the press where Mick (Underwood) and John (McCoy) have said 'it was all a farce and just an excuse to wind up the band' - which is a load of bollocks, quite frankly. I could authorize ANY of the specialists I saw to release their reports if you like. "I had huge nodes on my vocal chords and they were badly inflamed, and I was only able to get through the last Gillan tour by adapting the way I was singing.
"When we finished at Christmas I was very, very sad indeed; I had a lousy Christmas, and nothing was further from my mind than Black Sabbath. But when things started to happen it was great and 1983 has been the best year I've had for ages so far.
"Our paths hadn't crossed for a long time because Sabbath had been working in the States, so we arranged a meeting and found that we got on great together. We were talking about exactly the same things, because they were looking to start this new direction the same as I was really, and we decided to start rehearsing. It fitted in great with me because it meant that I could also have my six month lay off."

How Does it feel to be one quarter of a band now as opposed to being the leader?
"It's great to be in a BAND again, it's really stimulating," Gillan replies eagerly. "With Gillan we always tried to run it democratically, but now with Sabbath it's nice to be free of some responsibilities; to be part of something where decisions are arrived at for the right reasons, and where the enthusiasm is genuine because there are no petty jealousies." Geezer Butler, sitting close by, nods in silent agreement. One of the reasons why I found it difficult to believe that Gillan had joined Sabbath was that Ronnie James Dio had been fired for being strong-willed and trying to plaster the band with his influence, and after being at the top for so long, and being a band LEADER for about six years, I couldn't see Ian sitting back and accepting other people's decisions all the time. Surely Ian is just as strong-willed as Mr. Dio and therefore won't that create problems? Won't egos ultimately prove a stumbling block to the union? After all, Black Sabbath IS Tony lommi's and Geezer's band...

"Of course, there's no two ways about it, Tony and Geezer ARE Black Sabbath," Ian agrees promptly. "We're just trying to fit in as much as possible to the overall identity of Sabbath and just make our contribution in terms of a fresh direction - and it's all summed up in the title of the new album: 'Born Again'. "There's no conflict of egos. Obviously having Black Sabbath as part of your life for fifteen years has to be respected, I just look upon myself as the new boy, probably the same as Bev does," he says humbly "It doesn't affect my pride at all. Obviously I'm strong-willed, and so is everyone else, but instead of us all pulling in different directions, which happened towards the end of Purple when we couldn't resolve our differences, we're all looking in the same direction and it doesn't matter who's strong-willed or not. Whatever the strength of character, it's all going the same way and that can only be good for the band. There have been situations where there have been differences of opinion and quite frankly it's been difficult for me to appreciate why those decisions are being made. But on balance I've always sat back and thought 'Well, that's the way things have always been done with this band and there's no reason why I should come in and change that'. Adaptability is quite an important ingredient in survival, y'know."

Turning the question around, I ask Geezer how he and Tony have accepted Ian's views, opinions and ideas into Sabbath. "Well, I think we've got a democratic band and our attitude is very good together," he answers in his broad Brummie accent. "Obviously you're bound to have differences of opinion, but if you can sit down and talk it over, it's OK. "We all respect each other and we've found that we all feel the same about how we want to do things: records, tours and everything. It's difficult to find the right blend, but we've definitely found it here", he says enthusiastically. "Ian's had his own band and he's Ian Gillan in his own right, the same as we're Black Sabbath in our own right, having built up our reputation, and we're here to bring them together. "We've been in the business for a long time, we came from the same era and we've all had the same hassles and problems..." "...And so many things are shared now," Ian interrupts. "From my point of view, I have a lot more time to go mad nowadays - I can go apeshit when I want to! "There was a bit of a cock-up with the studio time when we finished the album, and I had already planned a short holiday - and it was great to be able to just go away knowing that Tony and Geezer would be at the mix," he smiles, seeming quite content at sharing the authority of a band, relieved of all 'mainman' responsibilities, but still eager for creativity and the chance to add his own special style to that of the great Sabbath Institution.

He is obviously quite refreshed, admitting that towards the end of last year Gillan (the band) had become a little tired - doing two hundred shows a year is no walk in the park, and on reflection he realizes that that was probably TOO much for the band. Now he tells me that Sabbath won't be doing any eight nights on the trot stints, rather taking tours at a steadier pace, something which will also ease the strain on his throat (which he assures me is fine now). He sees his new role as a great challenge and likens his feelings to when he joined Deep Purple way back in '69, revealing in the buzz of excitement and the positive attitude of the band.

"It's like having a jab up the bum," he laughs. But for all the back-slapping, it STILL seems peculiar (to me anyway) seeing Gillan fronting Black Sabbath and grappling to come to terms with that strong, highly evocative image which - despite slight changes in musical direction - has remained consistently rock solid since the very outset. "This is actually something we've talked out," Gillan begins, pausing for thought. "Basically I can't wear crosses round my neck because I don't wear jewelry - and I don't like wearing black either." He glances mischievously at Geezer and adds, "Although I've been through Tony's wardrobe and tried on some of his gear - he's got some amazing clothes y'know, but I realised that it just didn't suit me. I'd feel silly dressed up like that," he smirks and Geezer roars with laughter. "But the thing is," Ian continues, with Geezer still grinning broadly, "I'll never adopt an image which is false because it's very dangerous and very shallow. You've got to be as natural as possible and I don't see any contradiction between my attitude and Tony and Geezer's attitude."

But what about lyrically? Sabbath's lyrical style is firmly established, and famed for being so. "Lyrically there's no problems whatsoever. If you think about same of the titles I've used before - 'Vengeance', 'Demon Driver' are just two that spring to mind - and with Purple there was 'Demon's Eye' and 'Black Night'. They're all evocative phrases, like many Sabbath titles. "Geezer, who has done almost all of the lyric writing in the band's history apart from when Ronnie was in the band, has given me lots of ideas and suggestions and I've channeled them through my own special way, which isn't a million miles from what they've been doing anyway. When I first saw them rehearsing I was amazed at how many ideas they had - and I hadn't any! But after watching them for a while, and having shivers down my spine at how good they were, the ideas came flooding - they were so inspirational. "We're very pleased with the album, it's come out brilliantly and we're very proud of it." "It's as near perfect as it could be," Geezer confirms confidently.

From what I heard of 'Born Again' on the car cassette player as we sped along the M1, it's every bit as good as the band claim it is. The unmistakable Butler/lommi power thunders each track along, and the equally unmistakable voice of Gillan soars out from between them and makes for a glorious sound. Gillan fans will be delighted to learn that he's singing as well as he's done for years on this LP

The subject of the new album brings to mind a certain Bill Ward, a founder member of the band who left a few years ago and returned earlier this year to record the album, longing to play again after a good rest. It looked for a while as if he was back in the BS ranks for good, but who do I find posing for photos? Bev Bevan from ELO... "Bill came back and did the album," Geezer explains, "but towards the end he wasn't really up to it. He's had problems with his health and so we thought it would be better if he just went home to recover, which I think he will in a couple of weeks. "We've known Bev for a long time, and it was just a coincidence that when Tony mentioned it to Bev, he said he wouldn't be doing anything else for a while so he'd help us out."

Has he left ELO?
"I don't know," Geezer replies quickly, clearly (and understandably) not wishing to go into detail about either Bill's health or Bev's position at this stage. "Ask Jeff Lynne," Ian smiles, being equally cagey.
As far as we know, Bev will be working for us in the foreseeable future. It's a transitory stage for him and so we can't really go into details, but we'd like it to be a permanent arrangement," he sums up.
"He was great at rehearsals," Ian looks at Geezer again "he knew the Black Sabbath material better than any of us!"

Will you be doing any ELO covers?
"Er, 'Telephone Line' I think," Geezer replies, and again the two of them roar with laughter. As the two men laugh, joke, share fond memories and take every opportunity to rib each other, they appear as brothers. No doubt that situation was different when Sabbath and Purple were in competition with each other at the beginning of the Seventies. "There was always a strong element of competition," Ian replies.
"Ian keeps telling me about when 'Black Night' was at number one and 'Paranoid' was number two," Geezer grins. "It was the same with Zeppelin, Tull, Floyd, Free and those bands," an unperturbed Gillan continues, "there was great competition. You'd always try to blow other bands off at festivals - and we actually did that with Purple, we blew the stage up at Plumpton!" "It was like, who could get to America first," Geezer laughs.
"Yeah, who could go bankrupt first, who could spend the most money and who could jump the highest for the taxman! It was like a great Rock Olympics, in those days, but it was all based on a great deal of mutual respect, honestly! "That's something I don't see nowadays between bands - everyone seems intent on slagging everyone else off, and that makes me sad," Ian says.

But enough of this reminiscing, let's concentrate on the imminent future for the revamped Sabs. Rehearsals will take them up to a short stint in Scandinavia and then they'll return to England for their Saturday night headlining of the Reading Festival, the first outdoor festival the band have done since 1970.
Naturally, the bulk of the new set will be drawn from 'Born Again' but they'll have to incorporate the old faves of course. So how does Ian feel about singing those songs as Sabbath embark on their new era?
"It's great singing songs that are well known. I mean this is Black Sabbath, so it's perfectly reasonable. "We've rehearsed 'Paranoid', 'Iron Man' and 'War Pigs' so far, and I love singing them. I can't wait to do them live, especially at Reading because in my opinion it's the finest festival in the world."